About a month ago I decided to start an in-home and online joint book club, My first monthly Ghetto Girl Book Club will be held tonight – Tuesday November 10, 2009 from 7-9 pm. If you can’t join us at my house, then at least join me online. You’ll be missing out on my famous ranch, cheese and bacon dip, but at least you can live vicariously through the photos I’ll post later, as I will be updating this blog post live throughout the day and evening up until tomorrow.
Our book this month is Girl, Interrupted and it was written by Susanna Kaysen. I’m so excited about this choice, as I saw the movie back in 1999 and watched Angelina Jolie steal the film away from Winona Ryder, which is exactly why Angelina deserved that Oscar. I enjoyed the movie, because mental illness is fascinating to me and there was plenty of it in the film. Ever since then I’ve been planning on reading the book, and now that I finally have I can safely say the book was completely different than the film, especially since the film had a different and much darker ending.
Girl, Interrupted was written by Susanna Kaysen and it is about her two-year stay in a mental hospital as a teenager back in the 1960’s. She would be eventually diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, a mental illness I still have trouble understanding completely. Even while I was reading the book I kept saying to myself, but what does she have wrong with her exactly? I laughed when I turned the page and read the section on the definition of this disease, as I still didn’t understand BPD fully. I think this is due in part because both the book and the film never shared enough of the ”dark and twisty” moments Susanna had. I have trouble visualizing this conditions, as I’ve seen first hand most other mental illnesses. After watching the movie I thought Susanna was committed mainly because she was slutty, and after reading the book I thought it was because of her suicide attempt, she was slutty, and having a hard time with a new shrink who didn’t know her. After reading the part when Susanna was trying to chew into her hand to see if she could find bones I thought it wasn’t that big a deal. Then again, I grew up in a house where my brother chewed the noses off of our cats because he wanted to see if they were plastic, as well as having a neighbor who was a cutter and was all scratched up all the time, especially her arms, and they frightened me.
If you haven’t seen the movie or read the book, still visit us and even weigh in on the discussion. You never know what is going to pop up in the comments or on this post later.
- For instance, did you ever notice how the early movie posters showed Winona Ryder, but once the film came out all of a sudden Angelina Jolie was thrown on the cover art?
My favorite quote from the film:
Have you ever confused a dream with life? Or stolen something when you have the cash? Have you ever been blue? Or thought your train moving while sitting still? Maybe I was just crazy. Maybe it was the 60’s. Or maybe I was just a girl… interrupted.
- My first thought when I shut the book was why would the producers of the film take away the whole meaning behind the title? As much as I liked that quote in the film, I found the inspiration behind the title fascinating, as I love art and Vermeer. Susanna had seen Vermeer’s Girl Interrupted at Her Music with her high school teacher. I had planned on going to the Frick last November to see the same painting but I ran out of steam and missed seeing it. Why don’t you all tell me how Susanna felt after seeing it for the first time, and how she felt about it after her hospitalization? What was it about the girl who haunted her?
- Susanna’s voice while narrating Girl, Interrupted seemed clam, and convinced me that she wasn’t that crazy, perhaps a little bored or lost. Did any of you notice a change in her narration while reading this book? Did Susanna herself every change? Was she “crazy” enough to be in McLean in the first place?
- How do you feel about seeing her medical records as well as her own account of what happened during those two years? Do they balance the story, or do you feel she was trying to justify her stay by including them in the book?
- Why did Susanna leave out most of the details of her life before entering McLean Hospital? Is she telling us that nothing else should matter to us as the readers?
- Even though Susanna tried to explain madness in two different ways by telling us how madness feels and how it is treated, did you comprehend her particular mental illness? Do you understand madness at all? Any experience with it?
- Did you find it was easier to understand the madness of the other patients rather than the madness of Susanna herself? Do you feel as a reader we can trust her observations of madness, when she was claiming to be mad herself? Is it possible for a person struggling with madness to even have insight of other mental patients?
- Susanna was just eighteen years old when she checked herself into McLean Hospital, the very same hospital that once housed some of my favorite writers and musicians, Sylvia Plath, James Taylor, and Ray Charles. In my opinion McLean seemed like the place the rich sent their troubled relatives. Did any on you think of it this way? Did madness ever rear it’s evil head at McLean?
- Did you find it offensive when Susanna wrote this ”Luckily, I got a marriage proposal and they let me out. In 1968, everybody could understand a marriage proposal?”
- Where you surprised by Susanna’s reactions to Georgina and Lisa in the outside world? Why?
- If Susanna Kaysen was eighteen years old today, would she had spent two years at a place like McLean? What would happen to her in today’s world?
- I’ve mentioned that I felt Susanna went to McLean because she was sexually active. Do you feel sex and madness are related? If Susanna was a teenage boy, would they still have sent him there? Do you feel she was punished rather than treated?
We had book club tonight with less people than I anticipated at my home tonight. We still had fun, and I may have ate four cupcakes. We had time to watch the movie as well, and we all enjoyed the movie more than the book, which was surprising to me.
Anyone else up, out there, have something to add? Don’t be shy. I’ll be checking in throughout the night.
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 11, 2009
at 12:32 AM
Although it’s been a few years since I’ve read the book or seen the movie (although I owned both back in the US and read/watched them numerous times) I think the most interesting part of both for me is not so much her story but her perspective on the other patients. Patients like Lisa and the girl who kept chicken carcasses under her bed. Susanna provides and fascinating peek into the otherwise closed-off world of metal institutions.
To me, Susanna is not crazy, she might be a little blue, or a little introspective at times, perhaps a little lost, but I believe that her diagnosis was just a vague excuse for the doctors to justify her stay there.
My favorite part of the book is when they all go on that twisted “field trip” to the ice cream parlor. It’s so hilarious and bizarre.
By: Jen512 on November 11, 2009
at 1:12 AM
Jen 512 – I still have a hard time with the Borderline Personality Disorder! What is it, none of us can truly understand it! Because I never understood why she was there, I think that is why I enjoyed her thoughts about the other patients as well, because her thoughts on the others was more clear and easy to visualize than her thoughts about her own time spent there. Not to belittle or take away from the book which was interesting, but the screenwriter really did a nice job in making us understand about the other girls, and Susanna’s own struggles while she was there.
The book was a little removed, and we all agreed that we needed to hear more about her life just before going to McLean.
I believe that she was hospitalized out of shame more than her mental status. In today’s world she would have been there 72 hours, not two years.
However … in just writing that, if she truly believed that she had no bones in her hand, then she did need to be there … but as the writer of her story she did not convince me that even she felt she needed to be there …
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 11, 2009
at 1:23 AM
I also see that change from the book and the movie. I think the screenwriter would agree with our perspective and felt that the window into that world was the most interesting part, and I’m glad they focused on that.
I think the book was different because as the writer, a lot of these events actually happened to her, which forces her in someways to focus on herself and her journey more in the book. I don’t think she ever really felt that she needed to be there either, yet she was there for two years, and that’s got to make you wonder. Part of it must have been that time period, and the very different attitudes, drug therapies and limited knowledge at the time about mental illness. This day in age, you’re right she would have spent 72 hours there, and they would have prescribed her some Zoloft or something. Also the women’s movement hadn’t had much impact yet, so I imagine she felt much less empowered to object and get the f— out of there. Back in the day they could institutionalize you for being pregnant out of wedlock at her age.
Another thing I wonder, did she have the right to check herself out? I can’t remember if it was in the book or not. It’s highly probable that even though she checked herself in, she may not have had the power to check herself out. Laws about that sort of thing were very different back then too. Let me know if I’m remembering this wrong.
By: Jen512 on November 11, 2009
at 3:19 AM
Jen 512, I think she did not have the power to check herself out.
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 18, 2009
at 4:09 AM
I kinda remember seeing the movie… told you I suck at this stuff but I wanted to come by and tell ya that I think it’s great you are doing something you love so much – not a lot of people do that and it’s important. What is your next book? How long would I have to read it? Just wondering…. Have a good night! xoxoxo
By: Mabs on November 11, 2009
at 3:11 AM
Mabs – Thanks for stopping by! Next book will be announced very soon, and you’d have about a month to read it.
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 11, 2009
at 4:13 PM
I love this movie. I enjoy the book as well but this is one of the rare cases where the movie is better than the book. I too am fascinated with mental illness and am always intrigued with the way it was handled in the past. Do I think Susanna needed to be in the hospital? No. The same is true with Ester in The Bell Jar. Imagine in todays world if we didn’t have meds, therapists, chat rooms, books clubs, etc. I think everyone would be cutting themselves, chewing their hands to make sure there were bones inside. They had no one to really talk to, as this topic was so taboo. Cases were treated with electro shock therapy and pills that turned patients into zombies.
Just think if we knew then what we know now. Sylvia Plath could still be alive!
It’s heartbreaking to see how far we’ve come.
Side note…did your brother chew on the noses of LIVE cats? That is horrible.
By: Amy in Ohio on November 11, 2009
at 10:28 AM
Amy in Ohio – Sadly, yes, those cats were alive when the nose chewing took place. Glad to mhear you liked the movie better than the book, and I as well have always been fascinated with mental illness, especially growing up in a home with a socialpath, a bipolar, and an alcholic abuser. A friend of mine has several mental illnesses that run in her own family, so we have most of the bases covered. Sometimes even though I can’t stand Oprah I know she did good to the mental health movement, and education and a bit more tolerance and acceptance is out there today. Not always, but sometimes, which is why I always talk about my people, to educate others and stick it in their faces. I can not believe what it was like “back in the day.”
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 18, 2009
at 4:08 AM
I gave my full attention to this movie. I felt the pain and anguish of many patients. Mental illness is an illness that many of us do not give attention to. I am glad of movies and screenwriters that are out there trying to educate some. I will be posted on what is up next.
By: Doraz on November 12, 2009
at 11:45 AM
Doraz – So many people like to act like they are above mental illness, which really bothers me. I am so glad to hear you pay attention to films like these.
By: thegirlfromtheghetto on November 18, 2009
at 4:04 AM
I haven’t read the book, but I’ve seen the movie umpteen times and loved it every time. I don’t remember the hand-chewing thing (must have been left out of the movie?) but I never really thought Susanna was “crazy.” Just lost. Confused. I remember watching it and identifying with her quite a bit. There is an age, in most girls’ lives I think, when you just don’t know. You feel different or out of place. You feel like no one could possibly think like you or understand you. You question if there is actually something wrong with you. I think we are much more accepting of these phases nowadays, chalking it up to teen angst or the “emo” trend. Maybe it’s a good thing, or maybe it’s not and we should be paying more attention to our youth.
Either way, I agree that today she definatly wouldn’t have spent 2 years anywhere unless there were some untold issues going on. Maybe there were. Susanna is the author, so maybe there were other things going on that even she didn’t really recognize as not quite right (besides the hand thing). Maybe she left them out, thinking they were trivial details when in fact they were the whole reason for her stay. I’m sure Georgina didn’t actually think there was anything wrong with hoarding her chickens, until the other’s shamed her for it. That’s the thing with crazy, right? You don’t actually know you are.
I think sex and madness are linked in a behavioural way. What I mean is, there is “correct” behaviour and “incorrect” behaviour. (Of course it is mostly subjective in the end.) Incorrect behaviour could be being a promiscuous girl…or hoarding chickens under your bed. Correct behaviour could be abstinence or eating with a knife and fork. Of course, some cultures eat with chopsticks or even just their hands…there’s that subjectivity! I think sex and madness are linked in the black and white world, but not as much the one with shades of gray.
If I can refrain from starting a new book, I will try to read whatever you’re up for next!
By: Writebrite on November 13, 2009
at 8:57 AM